Internet dramaz

[sihayadesigns]

I had been pondering removing someone from my friendslist for some time. It's one thing for me to do a periodic friends cut every so often for people I've drifted from, who no longer update, or what have you. It's pretty rare that I defriend someone because my opinion of them has changed so drastically that I no longer want to interact.

This particular (male) person had a habit of entering discussions about womens' issues and discrediting the viewpoints of the women posting personal experiences. At one point, he insinuated that I was exaggerating my experience because the women he knows never talked about that kind of stuff. On another occasion, he was warned because he had become outright insulting. Overall, he just couldn't grok that he, as a dude, had cultural privileges that women generally don't. And that would be a sort of innocent ignorance were he not so gung ho on telling me and other women that our experiences didn't count, then returning the topic to his own (male) experience. You know, being part of the problem. But still, I try to keep the discussions that happen here pretty open, so I resisted cutting him off and had been persisting with a thought-out, balanced argument.

Today, he posted in his own journal about privilege... or specifically, he's tired of people whining about it and they should just "get over it." The post turned into a total travesty. Most people remained civil, and I wanted to hug the one gent who explained that the discussion of privilege "isn't to necessarily 'discount' the white-male/able-bodied persons's POV, as to recognize that it comes from a different paradigm, where some of the factors that the unprivileged don't have to deal with." I was like 'right on, dude!' especially after he explained it's not something he understood right away but was able to grasp after someone patiently explained it to him in a way he could understand. So double points for him-- both for getting it and being able to clearly articulate it to someone else.

As for me, when I pointed out that "get over it" is an unacceptable thing to say to someone trying to relate their own personal experiences with racism or sexism or what have you, I was told by one of his regular posters to... "get over it." So original. (She also then followed that up with "Or am I being too privileged?' God forbid I should have an opinion" in a perfect flounce of drama-baiting / failed reading comprehension.) This great little specimen then went on a rant about how hard it is to be white and have minorities get scholarships while she has bills to pay. Or something. It was kinda incoherent.

When another (white) poster posted about white privilege, detailing all the ways it makes life harder for minorities, the same little gem posted some drivel about she'd been wrooooonged for being white, including that white people are at higher risk of obesity or some such nonsense. Seriously, it made no sense. She was about one post away from typing "white power!" or so it seemed to me at the time. What she did say was "So sorry, you might catch my white. My bad." That's freaking close enough.

But all the background noise aside, the OP and I managed to have a decent enough discussion for a bit, which seemed to be going somewhere positive or at least reaching a place of mutual understanding. Then he made a racist joke about Latinos letting their kids run around the laundromat like little animals. I'm paraphrasing here, but that's pretty close to what he said. I would check, but he's already deleted the entry entire, because it "hurt peoples' feelings." Seemed more to me that he wanted to cover his tracks. People who did not see his comments are lauding him for that, saying he's such a great guy. Kinda makes me want to scream. But then hey, I've known enough shady bastards that cover the truth of their words and actions in order to keep some semblance of decency. At any rate, when he was called on the racist nature of the comment, his response was "relax, I was just trying to inject some humor into the situation." The situation being a conversation where we were discussing the pervasiveness of racism and how it's wrong to discount minority opinions. Like... does not compute, but hey. At least he showed his true colors and the subtle vein of several -isms that had been running beneath his arguments finally sprung to the surface.

Anyhow, he's officially removed from my friendslist. I don't know what I personally intended with this post, other than I needed to get it off my chest, as I have been really frustrated about it all day. But it was totally the right choice. I am done trying to civilly discuss things with people who cannot see past their own experience, and attempt to silence other viewpoints that do not fall in line with their own.

Mr. Uberreniger? I'm not over it, but I am totally over you.

Comments

[thatliardiego.livejournal.com]

In the modern era, the standard way of expressing racist thought is to couch it "as a joke."

As a professional entertainer, I have to reaffirm: the standards of real comedy have yet to sink that low.

[havocthecat]

I've had that kind of experience before, and it's never pleasant. Er, I'm talking both the discussion and the "someone whom my opinion of has changed incredibly drastically" thing.

[pats-quinade.livejournal.com]

Running smack-dab into somebody's ugly blind spot is never fun. Good on you for ditching a toxic daily reading experience.

[egosomnio.livejournal.com]

"...she'd been wrooooonged for being white, including that white people are at higher risk of obesity..."

As an overweight white guy, let me tell you, it sure does suck that I have easy access to more food than I actually need. It's absolutely terrible. It's gotten to the point where I can't go anywhere without seeing pounds and pounds of food, made however I want it, well within my price range. Personally, I think it's some sort of minority conspiracy to use temptation to bring the white man down.

Ahem. Seriously, though, there are lines between innocent ignorance and willful ignorance, and between ignorance and asshattery. It kind of seems that lines have been crossed, recrossed, examined, and crossed again.

[sihaya09.livejournal.com]

LOL. Okay, that made me laugh. :)

[lunamorgan.livejournal.com]

*applause* Exactly what I was thinking. "Oh God, my privilege in society affords me both the money and time to buy and eat extravagant amounts of high calorie foods. All because I'm white! Dear Lord, I do believe the minorities are trying to make me fat."

Um. I don't know about her, but I made me fat. By opening my mouth and putting food in it. Being white doesn't make you fat. People are ridiculous.

Also, dear God, people who are (speaking in a general sense) less likely to be in good finances get more scholarship money? Oh noes! I didn't go talk about how I didn't like minorities getting my internships when I learned that the Getty program only uses a pool of local minorities, not visiting white kids. I went, "Oh. Well, that makes sense, because there aren't enough people of minority background in art history. Because the art world is elitist. I'll go work at a mall, then, like a normal 20 something."

[happy-buddha.livejournal.com]

You're on to something here. Mexican food? Cheese and meat. Chinese food? Oily and large portions. Italian food? CARBS.

They's comin' fer us, grab yer guns...


Back to topic, the best way for a white male to deal with white privilege? Understand that the discussion is of systemic issues, and not a direct attack on you as a white male.

Once you do that, it's much easier to divorce yourself from being defensive and opening your mind.

It also helps if the arguments are presented with enough restraint that they don't automatically raise hackles. A better discourse, and all...

[astaria51.livejournal.com]

BLARG. That's upsetting and annoying. I've had a similar experience in the last few months. I think you did the right thing - having to talk yourself out of being offended by someone you once liked, because it's not the norm for you, is never healthy.

[edit to a less cheery icon? lolz]

[kita0610.livejournal.com]

It's stunning when people reveal themselves, isn't it? Like a train wreck. Predictable, at some point, yet still entirely crazy making.

Mini-rant.

[sparkliedragon.livejournal.com]

I wish I could somehow get the racist/priviledge stuff across to my sister and brother-in-law. I can't understand how someone that's well educated can be so willfully ignorant, and actually embrace racism. I am so sick of hearing "nigger" out of their mouths, I want to smack them. I was very amused when my sister was caught on a snide comment about gays; she and BiL were taking dance lessons from an obviously gay man, and BiL's phone was acting up, sister said, "yeah, his phone's just gay sometimes."

[afoundobject.livejournal.com]

you know... they're projecting in 2042 that whites will no longer be in the majority in America. Maybe he'll see what kind of privilege he really was enjoying when it's gone. Personally, I think it's cool to know that America's changing and melding with its people, that we're not just stagnant and full of sameness.

Sorry that you had to unfriend him, but it seems like it was with merit.

[aggiebell.livejournal.com]

Do you know if that statistic predicts that whites will still be the largest minority, or is some other group predicted to become a majority? I've heard the general idea before, but not as specific as 2042.

[egosomnio.livejournal.com]

That's just in the numerical sense, isn't it (that is, there won't be more whites than other races any more)? I know I've heard projections similar to that before, but it's been a while.
Privilege is the result of power - in today's society, I think that mostly means money, followed by political clout. If things change enough, that can (and, hopefully, eventually will) shift to a more proportionate representation, but I don't think whites making up a smaller percentage of the population alone would do it. It'll probably take more than a few decades for a change in population to filter its way into the halls of wealth and political power.

[sihaya09.livejournal.com]

Privilege is social and financial (ie, I will never be pulled over solely based on the color of my skin-- that's a more social aspect; however I am more likely to be raped than a man-- another social aspect). But yeah, hopefully a more balanced makeup would make for a more even playing field.. though I suppose it depends on who consolidates the most power while things are shaping up. A lot of good ol' boy networks are still going to be predominantly white.

[asim.livejournal.com]

I had to do a bit of Privilege education today to a new reader, even if I didn't put it like that. Admittedly, I did use a loaded term, but...this is a landmine, and you did good by trying to navigate it.
And yes, sometimes, you just have to cut 'em loose to save your own sanity.

And it was kickass to meet you, if slightly surreal and bizarre. :)

[reedrover]

Hi! I just read your comments through the link you provided, and I would like to LJ-friend you in order to read more of your thoughts. Your last comment over there hinted that you talk about bias from your particular slice of American life, and that's a perspective I don't often see. May I join your crowd, if only for a little while? - Thanks!